Comments on: So This is What It’s Like to be “Below Average”

By: JoshNS

JoshNS — Tue, 29 Dec 2009 01:19:15 +0000

It strikes me that you’re overly concerned about those numbers. The wonderful thing about most (all?) med schools in Canada is the pass/fail system. Marks don’t matter. Passing matters, yes, and I I think you should definitely examine your study methods so you always have a nice safety margin against failing an exam. If you pass but require remediation, so be it – histology may not be one of the more popular subjects around but it’s extremely important. The stuff that’s important that for whatever reason you don’t learn adequately now you can and will learn later.

By: Joshua

Joshua — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 13:55:08 +0000

Glad you can relate Arthur

By: Arthur

Arthur — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 22:54:08 +0000

Oh yea…. and I also commented on the same thing about a year ago…

Hey Josh,

Neat blog. I can relate to the things you talk about. Bloom’s Taxonomy is something I was exposed to early too, and it definitely shaped my thinking.

Comment by Arthur on January 14, 2009 @ 1:26 am

By: Joshua

Joshua — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 02:00:07 +0000

Arthur: It’s funny that you mention that link, because I actually learned that list during my Gifted program many years ago. I think I actually wrote a bit about it in one of my articles previously.

Jim: I was for two years, but my term finished a few months ago.

By: Jim

Jim — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 07:32:12 +0000

Hey Josh,
Are you still on the Shad Valley Board of Directors?

By: Arthur

Arthur — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 05:09:35 +0000

By: Joshua

Joshua — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 18:17:56 +0000

Medaholic: I agree that having a solid foundation is very important, and I guess I can do nothing put faith into the system that I’m being given a good foundation. As you can tell though I’m quite impatient and like instant satisfaction, which is concerning to me as you know how long this journey is.

Medhopeful10: I think one thing you have to realize is that the point of these courses is not necessarily to throw all this information into our heads and expect us to remember it for the rest of our lives – I think the bigger idea is that we learn how to handle this kind of material (for example, being able to understand biology) so that when you do need to review that information in the future, it will already make sense to you. I guess you could say a degree in biology, for example, is proof that you are capable of working with biology in a professional setting – not that you have all the molecules involved in the Krebs cycle memorized, but if you needed to review it, you would be able to understand it right away.

What bugs me is that there is a focus on knowledge and common ways to manipulate that knowledge, but not how to think about that knowledge (so that we can figure out our own ways to further manipulate that knowledge). We’re expected to know how to manipulate knowledge in novel ways on exams, without ever having these types of thought processes developed – that is ridiculous to me.

It’s alright for the smart kids who have already developed those thought processes on their own, but everyone else gets left by the wayside.

Robert: I think the difference with medical school is that you can argue that the knowledge we are learning is going to be relevant in some manner, so like Medaholic said, we are building a strong foundation of knowledge.

In all fairness, I’m just whining because I hate rote memorization and it bores me to death. That being said, I’m not going to deny that I think some of the things we’ve had to know were pretty ridiculous.

Jessica: I agree that the type of education I would be proposing would be tough to administer.

I do think we can use the current testing system and still do what I’m proposing. My problem isn’t with the testing system itself. My problem is that I don’t think we are preparing students the way we should be.

When students memorize all of the required knowledge for the course and still can’t do questions on the exam, there is a problem. And the problem is that no one is taking the time to shape how we think about this knowledge.

By: jessica

jessica — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 04:12:33 +0000

*correction on the above post*
ignore the first 3 words “as much as”

By: jessica

jessica — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 04:11:29 +0000

hey josh,
as much as i do agree with you that the learning process is almost the most important part of having an education, because for anyone, not just for those in medicine, being able to learn a wide range of skills in a short time is crucial when working in a real job.
however, the sad reality is that the school system is a “factory” that have to stamp out graduates along with a transcript with numerical values (aka marks). and the quickest way to mass manufacture those marks is to use multiple choice questions. although good university program that teach thinking, group work etc do exist, but they are always selective and limited enrollment, which means the majority of the student still won’t get that education. so all this comes down to money and resource because to teach and grade someone on those skills, profs need to spend alot of time and energy, which is costly to the university.

By: Robert

Robert — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 15:57:50 +0000

I am an University of Toronto life science student. I totally feel your situation, Joshua. Although you haven’t attended U of T for your undergrad, I can tell you that the pillar of a life science undergrad education at U of T is blind memorization and regurgitation, with very little understanding of the significance of ideas and principles. Looks like U of T medical school differs very little.

But in response to the comment by Medhopeful above…

“Why don’t University teach us HOW TO LEARN and HOW TO STUDY rather than dumping information into our brain,forcing us to remember.”

Welcome to University, buddy. As the UBC motto says, “it’s yours.”

“But regardless how stupid the system can be, learning is not for the sake of marks ! it is for you to understand, so forget about marks and below or above the average. Just Learn !”

The education system needs marks as much as people need bread and water to survive. No marks, the whole system collapses, and charlatans start taking over. The system owns you, you don’t own the system. So if you ever want to succeed in the system, to put it in blunt terms, accept reality and suck it up.